Damaged Goods Follow-Up Links

Home/christianity, Faith, Jesus/Damaged Goods Follow-Up Links

Damaged Goods Follow-Up Links

Here are the links I promised, to follow-up the post a few week ago: Damaged Goods, Sex, and Jesus.

This article also shares more links. But here are some I found that were interesting/helpful/from a variety of perspectives.

News Flash: You Probably Won’t Marry a Virgin

What Beyonce’s Halftime Show Reveals

When it Should Be about Love (a man’s voice!)

In Which I Am Bowed Low (Sarah Bessey’s own follow-up)

In the Image of a Beautiful God (this is an older post of mine at SheLoves and is more about body image than sex, but seems to fit. We are not about our bodies or our desires)

In my hunt for global voices (meaning gender/country/religious affiliation diversity), I found this fabulous post by a Muslim woman. Disentangling the Virgin Whore Dichotomy.

Oh for wisdom and creativity and truth and grace in raising our children!

Oh for wisdom and creativity and truth and grace in raising our children!

I’m of that same youth group, purity ring, talk with mom and dad culture that Sarah Bessey wrote about in the initial post that sparked the web-storm. And I believe I am one of those who didn’t come out angry or bitter. Maybe they don’t comment as often, or maybe there aren’t many of us so it is easy to get the impression I’m the only one. But I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it comes down to a few things.

  1. My parents and church didn’t emphasize purity for purity’s sake. They emphasized Jesus and reading, studying, loving the word of God.
  2. My parents and church didn’t place one virtue over and above others. They were all to be aimed at and they were all unattainable in my own strength.
  3. My parents and my church made absolutely zero foolish promises about a future perfection in marriage based on maintaining a certain purity standard.

I will never say, and neither would they, that things were perfect. And I won’t say that I’ve been perfect or won that perfect marriage. In fact, I’ve been writing out some of the struggles and weakness and difficulties just this week as I concentrate on a few chapters in my book. But when it comes to these three things, I remain thankful.

How about you? More links? More thoughts?

By |February 28th, 2013|Categories: christianity, Faith, Jesus|Tags: , , |6 Comments

6 Comments

  1. richelle @ "our wright"-ing pad February 28, 2013 at 10:30 pm - Reply

    i believe that there is a strong link between modesty/moderation and purity – for both guys and gals. well, at least that is the idea that i’ve been mulling over for more than a few years. as a mama of 6 girls, i get tired of hearing that modesty is the girl’s responsibility and the best way for her to show love to the men around her (i’m not denying that it is a way… but i balk against the idea that guys shouldn’t also have to struggle and work to maintain their purity.)
    i’ve also got a few boys – so i can understand the perspective of not wanting my boys to be tempted too much.

    i don’t have specific answers as to how they tie in… but i believe when i’m walking my talk that there are certain characteristics that are to be evident to all – unity, love for one another, holiness, joy, hope… and moderation (or gentleness) is one of those named…

    i’m still trying to get all those puzzle pieces to somehow fit together in my head.

    and my experience with my parents/my church was very similar to yours. i didn’t wear a purity ring, but purity because my heart belonged to Jesus, was emphasized… not for a great marriage, not to not embarrass my parents, not to not be a huge temptation to all the guys around me, not to hold to some legalistic standard – but to strive for holiness in all aspects of my life.

    • Rachel Pieh Jones March 1, 2013 at 6:06 am - Reply

      I love your last paragraph especially. Amen. And when you wrote about the characteristics to aim at. Beautiful and true. Thanks Richelle.

  2. Jen Smart April 1, 2013 at 8:17 am - Reply

    Fascinating set of articles again thank you 🙂 Sorry that I am not providing more of the diversity you are looking for, but I only have sons and we are global TCKs and the boys spent their university years in Northern America so we are a bit of a mixed bag. My sons spent their teenage school years (they are barely out of them) in Sydney, which is very secular and culturally permissive, and we went to a very small but “reformed” church, with a ton of young men & women in their 20s and 30s who invested heavily in the youth (which consisted of only my 3 and the 2 PK’s LOL). But they were pro purity in it’s true full sense, and encouraged the youth to do the same, but they shared their lives, were open, and made it abundantly clear that purity was expected and right, but didn’t pour on the massive shame/guilt stuff that Sarah Bessey talks of. The youth group quadripled in the few years we were there, almost all non Christians who my boys brought from school, and every one has become a TRUE believer. I am not saying that they were all pure as the driven snow, and sadly, and sadly, later one not pure at all, but the 80% non pure “average” was only about 10% for us which I find astounding. Soooo…. from my perspective, the reason that I think it was so successful, comes down to a few things:

    1. The investment of the young adults in these kids. When “grown ups” in their 30s and 40 who have been married since before the youth were born, tell the teenagers how to be teenagers, the poor kids cannot imagine that the “oldies” know anything. Yet when you are 14 and a 20 year old tells you something, they can not only relate better, but the teenager can see it lived out in front of them. But even then telling isn’t enough!! They were involved and invested in their lives (as apposed to just being their Sunday teachers) the kids SAW with their own eyes, young men & women sitting on the door step all evening in the cold because no one else was home and they would NEVER be inside alone without company. They saw these young people court, engage and marry well. They had real life living examples right in front of them, and not just on a Sunday! (eg my youngest son worried through his teens that he would never find a pure and Godly wife as he never saw one and the youth was 90% males, … then when his 20 year old youth group leader met a Godly girl one day out of no where, and my sons watched them court, engage, marry in an 18 month period, and the boys were so involved in their lives, were asked to participate in their wedding etc, my sons saw tangible evidence of what God can do and how we should respond to that and treasure it, more than any theory could ever provide, and my son came out with 110% surety that God would do the same for him …. which He has 🙂 *note: these young men & women were not youth pastors, they were simply the people in the church!!

    2. It is not the job of the youth leaders to carry this kind of responsibility alone. The bulk of the youth came from non Christian families, and so we became “parents” to 10 teenagers; 8 sons including 3 of our own, and 2 daughters. This became our entire lay ministry for 6 years, as we nurtured and loved and cherished these children, took 2 cars everywhere, opened our home to them all after school, weekends etc. even going on holidays where we could drive and to places which could take all of them (hotels were never an option LOL). We made sure that they ALL went on church camps and the entire time, the dialogue was open, honest, filled with laughter but serious when it needed to be. We might have been in our late 30s (so “old” to them), but they could join the dots between themselves and the older youth, then between the older youth and the young marrieds, and between the young marrieds and us, rather than the usual chasm between themselves and us with no dots joining them. We said, did, explored, investigated, and displayed, the same things that they learnt from the older youth. There was consistency always. What we told them in “old, wise” words, they heard from the older youth in “cool, wise” different ways, and saw it played out in those above them. We are strongly anti “divided” churches where everyone is divided into their age groups and sticks within them for Sunday School, youth group etc. Everyone was one community and the teenagers were never treated as the odd ones out as so often happens. They were treated with value and respect but also knew their place. No brimstone and fire and shame piled on their heads, but no nonsense and speak like Sarah Bessey either, which makes everyone “feel good” about what they did so that there is no responsibility taken! Jesus washes our sins, not Sarah Bessey telling us we should carry no guilt.

    3. Our family and our church were about open dialogue. The bible was ALWAYS open and discussed, everybody was allowed to question anything they liked. Each person came to their conclusion in their own time and own way, so it was not blind following, but true God in your heart stuff!!

    4. Owning your beliefs is vital. Sooo many people follow blindly one direction or another, and just jumped on the Sarah Bessey bandwagon SOOO fast, to make themselves feel better 🙁 But for us I cannot tell you how many discussions our family has had in regards to what purity looks like. Not just sexually but how they dress, how they date, words they use, etc etc. Having no daughters of my own and the bulk of the boys’ teenage high school years, not only did they have no sisters, but neither did any of their friends! The 2 girls came into our group later, but for the most part we had 8 boys in our lives without a single sister! But they all went to co-ed schools and knew girls even if they were secular only. Anyway, the gist of it is that the open discussion led to all sorts of things, including the boys coming to their own conclusion that if they expected girls to cover up, then so should they, board shorts rather than speedos, sun shirts not bare chests. Maybe crazy for most people, and maybe unnecessary, but for them they worked through their own way of working out what modesty looks like and how it should differ or be the same, for girls and for guys 🙂 ANd when you make “different” choices, but there are 8 of, you are almost never the odd one out!! This gives courage let me tell you!

    5. We read the books, ALL of them, the sex and relationship books for boys, for girls, for every everyone, and some resonated with some and some with others. All of these 10 children of “mine” are now between 21 and 23, and have found their place and what they believe, and naturally, all made mistakes and even some have regrets. But to a secular world, they would laugh at their “mistakes”, how can kissing one girl, be a “mistake” they would say? but that is a different conversation, but they are redeemed and I know for a fact that at least 7 maybe even 9 of them will go into marriage virgins! That is 70-90%!! woohoo!! They don’t feel fire and brimstone and coals piled on their heads because of their mistakes, but they don’t brush them off lightly either as if they mean nothing.

    I think that sarah Bessey is wrong. She is 30ish from what I can work out and has not seen the way that impurity at marriage can eat into a Godly marriage!! It is easy to :cover it up” in the first 10 years of marriage when you are having fun, raising babies (harder than fun but a great distraction). It is when yo hit your 40s and life isn’t as fresh not as hard, that you see the cracks for what they are, and the poison that unrepented, truly dealt with, sexual impurity raises it’s ugly head! (yes it can come out sooner too and often does, but don’t assume at 30 that because you patted yourself on the back and say that the past is “normal” and means nothing, that it is not eating at the foundations of your marriage and that one day the house won’t tilt!

    • Rachel Pieh Jones April 1, 2013 at 11:14 am - Reply

      Wow Jen, so much to chew on here. Thanks for your thorough, thoughtful, and honest response. I especially appreciated hearing how you handled things with your boys and their friends. Personal stories and examples leave so much to learn from, as a 34-year old mom of both genders, I have so much to learn!

  3. 当店は業界最強の海外一番人気のルイヴィトン スーパーコピー 代引き販売老舗です!高品質のルイヴィトンコピー代引きや情報が満載しています。私達は貴方の為に同等な品質のルイヴィトン代引きと価格安い商品を提供します.ご購入する度、ご安心とご満足の届けることを旨にしております http://www.brandiwc.com/brand-super-11-copy-0.html

  4. 2016秋冬最適ウブロコピー腕時計皆さん、こちらへどうぞ、ご注意くださいね。2016秋冬がソそろそろ来ますよ。皆様へのいい気持ちを与えることができるため、こういう季節に最適商品が登場しております。ウブロコピー,ウブロスーパーコピー,ウブロコピー時計,ウブロコピー代引き,ウブロコピー 時計通販,ウブロコピー時計販売弊店,は最低の価格と最高のサービスを提供しております。皆様は最高の満足を収穫することができます。▲下記の連絡先までお問い合わせください。是非ご覧ください! http://www.bagkakaku.com/vuitton_bag/2/N41100.html

Leave A Comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.